Interview with General Mark W. Clark on the origins of The Citadel's Pipe Band, 1981-1982.
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The photograph was taken during the 1981-1982 school year, after The Citadel won first place in the Jacksonville, Florida Scottish Games, which was the first year The Citadel Pipe Band ever competed. In the center is Tim French. On the left is Bill LeJeune with Ken Hahn on his shoulders, and on the right is Don Scales with Mark Lester on his shoulders.
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Gen. Clark The bagpipes I was in Austria and when the war ended in Italy I didn’t know when it was ended. I mean I knew it was ended I didn’t know what I was destined for my command. I then commanded an army group, two the British 8th and the American fifth and I was surprised one day to get a message from Washington telling me that I was to be the high commissioner in Austria and I was to get my commission from the state department. And I didn’t like that one bit since I didn’t want anything to do with the state department. And anyway, I wore two hats. I was a military occupation commander, and I was a high commissioner, a high commissioner’s duties being to meet with the other high commissioners, namely; the British and the Russians.
[Austria] at Potsdam, the last stop before (?) they agreed on the silly arrangement with Germany, where Germany would be divided up and Berlin would be in the middle of the Russian Zone. And they made the same decision with Austria. [Austria…] Once the war started in 1938, Austria was overwhelmed by the Germans, and for all intents and purposes, became her (?). So Austria was divided up into lower proletariats, giving the French occupation. So anyhow, our headquarters were in Vienna. It took me a little while to get in there because the Russians went through (?) raising all kinds of cain. But we finally got in and I set up a headquarters. And of course each nation was competing with the other. With the troops being (?) ship shape and neat looking. And of course each occupation force had a band, and we, we formed a band, the Austrian occupation forces band. And the band was very good. And pretty soon the (?) down in the Saltzburg Zone of Austria, where the 42nd division was located. And they had gotten a few bagpipes, and some bagpipe uniforms. And it developed into a bagpipe section, which played on occasions, and made quite a hit. Of course the music… Are all you fellows in the bagpipe band? … The music is noted for ites stimulating. And it’s designed to inspire men to feel their best. And it made a
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hit with these poor, down trodden Austrian civilian people, who’d been under Russians and the Germans. And the moral [sic] was low. So I decided to take that little Austrian bagpipers and develop them into a section of the band of the United States Band that we had. And I was able to get a Pipe Major, as the British called it … you call your the Pipe Major now? … the leader - who is it now?
[Interviewer] I am sir (me)
[Sandy] He’s doing two jobs in one, he’s doing drum major and he’s pipe major. And he’s an officer in the company. (Sandy)
Gen. Clark Who’s your, who teaches?
Sandy I do that sir.
Gen. Clark Who is the first man I brought in?
Sandy I think his name was Creary.
Gen. Clark Yea. Just as the boys finished the parade, they played Dixie and marched off, and turned to the left, he dropped dead. And I was in a quandry to get somebody. And I got Great Alexander. And I found him up in North Carolina. And I guess you are the third.
Sandy Yes, sir.
Gen. Clark So one day after I arrived at the Citadel, and had taken over in ‘54, I was sitting in my office thinking about various things, the bagpipes flashed across my mind, and I wondered where they were. Because when I came home from Austria, the band stayed in Austria. While the occupation was about to get over, and Austria was to become an independent state (?) and I brought the bagpipes and kilts back to the United States. And I took them out to the Presidio. I had command of the 6th Army in the city of San Francisco after World War II. I had been overseas 5 years. And so I took the band, the sections equipment out to San Francisco. And I got hold of the band leader of the 6th Army band, and I told him about the band in Austria and the hit it made, and he said he’d give it a whirl. So he found somebody who knew how to teach the
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bagpipes. And so we organized it into the 6th Army band. And it made a tremendous hit, because the regiment that occupies the army headquarters usually had the regiment, had a group there in the city, and it’s called San Francisco’s own. It’s a shoot out of the just like that in Washington. And the bagpipes made a tremendous hit in San Francisco. So when I left San Francisco in 1947, I guess it was about ‘49, I left the city of San Francisco and was given the Continental Command of the United States, the whole continent, and the Headquarters, I had two, one in Washington and one in Fort Monroe, Virginia. And so I gathered up my bagpipes, and took them to Fort Monroe, where they had one of the Field Forces there, I think it was the Army Field Force Band And they developed it, and played all throughout that part of Virginia. And, as usual, it was very successful. Then I got my orders to relieve MacArthur, and be prepared to go over to Korea, and as soon as he was relieved by Ridgeway, then, who was already over there. He had the 8th Army, and they put him in temporarily. And they sent for me to get ready to go over. And I went. And I knew I wasn’t going to need the bagpipes section over in Korea. So I said to whoever it was Chief of Staff in Washington, and I said “Look, I’ve got some bagpipes and kilts and paraphenalia that I can’t take over to Korea, and I’ve taken them several places, and I want you to keep them for me, store them,” and he said “sure, be glad to.” And he called somebody, and he said that I had a box or two or this stuff to turn over and keep until he gets back. Well after the Korean War, in the middle of the war, is when I got my message from (Huey?) if I’d be President of the Citadel. And I told him, “yes, I was interested in it.” And I told him I couldn’t leave in the middle of the war, but would he hold it for me. And they held it. And I took it. And then, one day, the office of the President there, was I think, that little office, I guess that George, is it your academic, Meenaghan, he got a little office, you, that used to be the office, that was Summerall’s office. And I remember when I took, I came, I flew back from Korea, after signing the Korean Armistice, and met Ike as President, and gave him the Korean Armistice, which I signed, and which Kim, who’s still that SOB
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that runs North Korea. And so at that time the President wanted to know I was going back to Korea. And Ike and I had been friends in battle for years. And he said, “when are you going back to Korea?” And I said, “I’m not going back, Ike.” Ike didn’t like to be called Ike was he was President. So he said, “what do you mean you’re not going back?” And I said, “The war’s over, I got 40 years in, and I want to retire.” And he said, “you can’t retire, the emergency’s still on.” And he said (?) he said “you could retire,” And he said “Do you obey your Commander-in-Chief?” And I said, “yes.” And he said “I want you to go back to Korea,” which I did for 6 more months. And he said, “I’ll order you to Washington for duty.” And I said I’d already been to Washington a half dozen times, and I’m going to retire. And he said, “What’s your (anxious), why are you so anxious to retire?” I said, “well, I got a good job, it’s in education.” And he said he’d been at Columbia, and I visited him while he was a continental commander at Columbia.” And he said, “What is it?” And I said “It was in education.” And he said, “That’s good, where are you going?” I said “It was a secret.” He said, “From the President of the United States?” I said, “Well, it’s a secret, but I guess I’ll have to tell you.” I said, “It’s the Citadel.” And Ike turned to me and he said, “Well I’ll be God damned,” he said “only yesterday I wrote to the chairman of the board of visitors recommending Willard (C?) to be President of the Citadel.” Willard C was a Major General, only about so high, a friend of mine, and I said, “Well, you’re too late Ike.” And Ike said “What do you mean, I’m too late?”
So I came down and I took over the Citadel. And one day, sitting in my office, I mentioned that when I came down with Burns from Ike’s office to show me the Citadel. I’d seen it before, but they had a review of the Corps of Cadets and afterwards, of course the President was there and great crowds of people. And he took me into Bond Hall, took me into Summerall’s office. And he said, “This is the President’s office.” And I said, “this little room is the President’s office?” “Yes sir,” and he said, “Well, you can have an office
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anyplace you want.” So I said, “What will you give me?” So, that’s when I built that bigger one back in Bond Hall. It had a big desk for a big fella. And one day, sitting there, I thought about the bagpipes. And so I got on the telephone, and I called up the Chief of Staff cause I knew he’d get action. And I said, and I told him about the bagpipes in storage and I wanted them sent to the Citadel. And he said, “yes sir, we’ll get right into it.” About 4 days later, I got a telephone call from another General up there, saying that the Chief of Staff told him to get the bagpipes and kilts and equipment, that they’d run into a snag. They’d found that this equipment had been purchased by the government, that they weren’t my bagpipes, that they belonged to the government. And they said that we want you to have them, and that we know the history of them, but the technicality that they have to be sold to the Citadel. “Well,” I said, “you damn cheap skates, what are you trying to do?” So they said, “Well that’s the decision.” So I said, “well, what do you want for them?” They said to ask what you’d offer. And I said, “$25 bucks on the whole works.” And they said, “SOLD.” So they sent them down. And I had these things, and I opened them up, and I kept thinking about it. It was the summertime, and there were no cadets on campus. In those days, we didn’t have much of a summer school. And so I called in somebody, and I said, “Find out how many members of the band live in Charleston.” And they found out that the commander lived in Charleston, and a good many of them lived in Charleston. And I said, “Try and gather them up and call them in. Let me talk to to them, that they didn’t have to dress up. Tell them they weren’t in trouble, I just wanted to meet with the members of the band.” So about 15 fellas that came around in the morning. And they said the members of the band were here. And I said, “Very well,” and they came in and sat down. And I told them about the bagpipes. I said I’ve seen their band, and I think it’s a magnificent one. But I think it’d be even better with a bagpipe section in it. But I think it’d be even better with a bagpipe section in it. And so I said, “Well, does anybody have any real objections?” And nobody did. And so I said,” Well, any other questions to ask me?” And
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there wasn’t any questions. And I said, “Well, that’s it, glad to have met you.” And they went out. And pretty soon, old Suzzie Brook, she was my secretary, and she’s still hanging around. And she came to the door and said, “Sir, the band hasn’t left yet, they’re having quite a discussion, and the commander would like to speak to you.” And he came in the door, and he stood in the doorway. And I said, “What do you have on your mind?” And said, “Sit, we think this is a fine idea to have a bagpipes section, but who’s going to play the bagpipes?” And I said, “You are, that’s all, that you very much.” He was flabbergasted. And the last thing he said as he went out the door was, “Do we wear those skirts?” So I said, “Yes.” So that was a problem to begin with about the skirts. But, they solved it themselves. And as soon as they began to practice. And everybody loved it. And the Saint Andrews Society head we had bagpipes, and 2 or 3 of them would play.
Gen. Clark You still attend that banquet, don’t you?
Gen. Clark So that began the beginning of the bagpipes. From then on, there was no direction to go but up. The efficiency, moral [sic], admiration by Charleston, everybody. Bagpipes were in demand everywhere. I remember I was asked to be a leader of Madi Gras one year, and I had the bagpipes. Do you still go?
Sandy No sir.
Gen. Clark We had some hitch a few years ago. And I took them for several years. And they made a hit at the Citadel and all over the states.