1 10 1 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/39779/archive/files/a7615c6b214e00a1667c84c1ab85f63d.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=tOVuDneGZMqzVCLNUSkzv-9aWnBfbFGETk3GvAcBYZxNNnSZNCNqS5w5yBqdKWHRnGGxhsXeYID0IKQW4OdT5l-m-wHPvzFTtVdeOOxkCX38bKbTRK1Hi%7EgB62bRFRoUxmZLWAgW%7EiBZ93-N3iZq-7T5qAYjQto5wuGNd8083ylp-1v3DGLB5JvAYx1-z2DUfPDNexboHVcjsq2-SU9frex11n9IVpX9XTPsE7wASNoZ7xTFM9BMxToAeAJ-ipimdsRQkS0eWg7abpt2jEhA4e9TshSnNIJmYkgTilYo8zryYJVogLS898R6QnMCgZvgQXu66cL5o4VMKOwWjGCEsg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 9afd1fb528bf05c7b5a3f28ed6496fc3 PDF Text Text TRANSCRIPT - LILLIAN GREEN Interviewee: RAYNAULD TURNER Interviewer: LILLIAN GREEN Interview Date: NOVEMBER 21, 2016 Location: CHARLESTON, SC Length: 69 min. RAYNAULD TURNER: Okay Ms. Green. If you could tell me where and when were you born? LILLIAN GREEN: In Charleston. Downtown Charleston. RT: Mmm. LG: And in fact, Magazine Street. RT: Okay. LG: And the year was 1934. RT: Amen. Amen. Was it, he’s asking the questions. How was it growing up? I mean how was life at that time? LG: Well in the Black community, because I was raised up, end up being raised up on Short Street. And that’s exactly what it says, Short Street. It runs from Logan back to. What’s the name of the street? I’m trying to think, downtown. But it’s one block from Broad Street. In that community we were treated great. RT: Okay. LG: Because it was predominantly Black and you had to listen to the Black folks. It didn’t matter. Mom, Dad, neighbor, whatever. But I had to walk from there which is like walking from Broad Street to Calhoun Street to go to school. �Lillian Green 2 RT: Mmm. LG: So you see that walk. If I left Short Street and turned into Queen Street and then remember to cross, go across the street, the school that was right there, there was an elementary school. Because you know those days, White, Black. If I didn’t cross, the little White kids would call me the N word. RT: Okay. Mmm. LG: And there was a policeman in that area and if I stopped, sometimes I ignore them, I’d make sure, try to get across that street before I’d have to pass them. And he in turn, sometimes if I’d turn around and say something would call me peckinanny, take his little club, push, “get away, get away”. And so but my mom taught me really to hate White people. And these racist policemen. Because my mother said you can’t hate anybody because, she said, and it get so she wouldn’t use the word hate. We couldn’t use it in the house. It was like it was a curse word. She said you can’t. And she told me one day if I continued when I went up to the altar to take communion that she would come and get me. RT: Wow. LG: Because we said the prayer before, again, love and charity with our neighbor. Intend to lead a new life. She says so you can’t take that communion if the hate is in your heart. RT: Absolutely correct. LG: So I still felt that way though until later on. She worked for a family and the wife treated her. I saw the wife treating her like a person. �Lillian Green 3 RT: Mmm. LG: You know? And of course she was still the maid, but she was, she treated her nice. And then when I started at nursing at old Roper, I met a doctor. A Dr. Julian [0:03:40 Bachsen]. And he was just so nice to the Black patients because of course you had Black surgical, Black surgery, Black medicine, White surgery. So but on the floors that Black patients were on, that man was so nice and for a while I was confused. I said now, he’s White, she’s White. And I learned to - like my mom said there are nice White people. There are bad White people. There are nice Black people, there are bad. You have to take them individually. RT: Okay. LG: And I learned that as I was about to say, if I walked Logan Street to St. Phillip, right in front of Logan Street there was Memminger Elementary. RT: Okay. LG: I had to pass that. RT: Mmm. So you’re passing two elementary schools. LG: Actually three because Beaufain turns into Phillip. The College of Charleston has a building. I forgot the name of that school. There was another school. RT: Wow. LG: On St. Phillip Street closer to Calhoun. And but like I said, it was times then. But it seemed so odd. And then Buist school, a lot of kids were at Buist school. We had to split going to school. RT: Wow. LG: Some of us had to go 7:00 to 12:30 or 1:00. Can’t remember. Then the other �Lillian Green 4 group came in and was there until 5:30 or 6:00. Our days were short. RT: Wow. Interesting. Very interesting. LG: Yeah and now you could hardly get a Black kid in Buist school still because now it’s Buist Academy. RT: Mmm. Absolutely right. LG: Yeah, so it’s—all in all I was happy that as far—a little Black kid, it’s confusing. It was confusing and I don't think a lot of people realize, thinking about this, they say kids, but they weren’t thinking about Black kids. RT: Right. And around what age were you when you were walking, were you walking by yourself or were you walking with other girls at that time? LG: No. Actually when I first started, your grandmother Bee, she took me to Buist school to teach me where to be in school and then right to Emanuel Church because we went to Emanuel Church. So after I learned my way there, I would walk. RT: Okay. Okay. Oh, that’s excellent. LG: Yeah they would take me, showed me we couldn’t walk King Street because the shops were there. Anything happen in any of the stores, the first Black person, they say y'all did it. So King Street only on Sunday because the stores were closed then. Not like now. But so we went either St. Phillip Street or I walked down to Meeting Street to Calhoun. RT: Okay. Now just to clarify those who are listening, Bee is my grandmother. And who is Bee to you? LG: My cousin. RT: Okay. Excellent. Excellent. So tell me a little bit more about your family at �Lillian Green 5 that time because I can really hear it in your voice. You’re really passionate about the family. LG: Yeah, well Bee was my cousin and they lived on Charles Street and some people call it - oh it has two names. And we lived - so it was all in the downtown area. And Bee’s grandmother that we called Aunt Annie, she was - and my mother’s - I’m trying to think, they were - their parents were sisters. RT: Okay. LG: Yeah, so that would be your great-grandmother. RT: Wow. Wow. LG: Yeah so we always said cousin Annie. Yes, and any time there was a hurricane or something coming we would go on Charles Street and we would all be there because the house we lived in, the people who lived in the front house, they were from Adam’s Run and then they would go to Adam’s Run, boat up and go to Adam’s Run and so instead of us being there. Because there were a lot of trees in that area. RT: Mmm. Well did that area flood or? LG: It flooded downtown. Yeah, not as bad as the city floods now because I think they’re tearing down so many places and build houses years ago, they didn’t allow you to build. You go downtown. I mean they’re so squeezed up and you couldn’t down that thing. RT: Wow. LG: But yeah we would go there, so that’s how your grandmother Bee - so yeah, I miss all of those old people because then we knew who cousins were. Because if they would come up the country, there’s cousin so and so, but now with my mom gone, cousin �Lillian Green 6 Annie’s gone and Lula. RT: Right. Lula. LG: So those - they’re - yeah. RT: You talked about your school. Now it was a labor of love for you to get to school. LG: Yes. RT: What are some of your best memories about school? LG: The teachers were - they were fantastic and they actually - integration was good because the kids didn’t have to do what I have to do. Now it’s almost back. I don't know. The system is so - it’s crazy now. But those teachers taught us. If there were some kids who were slower, they could divide them in the class and while we were doing one thing they would be sitting there helping the slow students. RT: Okay. Can you describe some of the classroom? What did it look like when you were in there? How many kids? LG: We had maybe around about thirty. About thirty. RT: Okay. LG: Yeah and we didn’t think it was over crowded. And then of course you have the radiator heaters. RT: Okay. LG: Radiators be making all that noise. RT: So where was the radiator heater? Was it in the back of the room or was it in the middle of the room? LG: I’m trying to think. I think it was - well it was kind of hard to say if it was �Lillian Green back, front. When we entered - well that would be the front because the teacher’s desk and the radiators were like on the side. Like how this - along, yeah. RT: Okay. LG: And we had the coat rack sitting to the back. RT: Okay, so you mentioned that the teachers were the thing that you remember the most. They were fantastic. LG: Yeah. RT: Can you go into some of the things that they’ve taught you and maybe it’s something to help you in life? Did they share anything? LG: Oh yeah. We learned - oh, English. You couldn’t use bad English in class. RT: Oh excellent. LG: Because they would - of course now, the kids, that’s a special language. Because I know my granddaughter one time was talking on the phone and she said - no, where you at? And her mother, my daughter that was a pastor that died, said what? My mom talk - so when she got off the phone, Mama said where you at? Well that’s how we talk. Mama said not in here. RT: Oh wow. LG: Yeah. She said no. Not in here. She said you know the correct way. Do you say that in school? No Ma’am. She said well, you don't say that here. You say it correctly. She said well some of the kids don't like you to - she said I don't care. RT: Wow. LG: She said you speak correctly. Where you at? Girl, where you at? Uh-uh. No. No. And but our teachers, they were great. And it’s so odd we didn’t have the room but 7 �Lillian Green 8 we would have the hallway at certain times. We did music. We had somebody would teach us. So we got music. Pianos in the hall and we had operettas there. We’d have, instead of plays, we’d have the operettas and we’d sing the parts. And of course then we’d have to go to Arches School because they were the only Black school that had an auditorium. RT: Wow. LG: So all the schools had to use Henry P. Archer Auditorium. But it was great. So we had music and at recess the teachers were out there. They assigned different ones to keep order and because at Buist School we didn’t have a cafeteria. We had - it was like a house and they did the food in that little building and then they had - well now it would come in handy because we had little tables outside. We would get our lunch and eat up there. RT: Okay. LG: But in school and in church we were just happy. But once we got into the outside world then we realized it’s - it was different. Because of our skin color. RT: Yeah. Right. But no, excellent feedback. And actually we’re - that’s the perfect segue into our next question. How did you get your job at Roper hospital? LG: Well I went to the nursing school. RT: Okay, tell me a little bit about that. LG: Okay. I went to - they had an LPN school. Practical nursing school. And so I went there because I went to New York for a year to get residency up there so I could go to nursing school to be a registered nurse. RT: Oh wow. Okay. �Lillian Green 9 LG: But then my mom got sick and then I came back home. We she didn’t tell me. A neighbor told me that my mom was sick and she said, I don't know if she told you. So I came back home. And so Medical University was there. St. Francis Nursing School. I couldn’t go. Because I was Black. RT: Wow. So where did you get your residency in New York when you went up? LG: Well I was living with my godmother in the Bronx. And if you were there at least from six months to a year, you could get help. You were considered a resident and so the tuition would be much less. RT: Did you find that to be kind of a normal trend? If you wanted to go into nursing? Because Mary Moultrie had to do the same thing. LG: Yeah but then I also found out up there, I mean the schools were open to you and everything, but you still had the little - some White folks don't want to say they’re racist. But they’re prejudiced. RT: Okay. LG: It’s just - it wasn’t as bad as here. It’s sort of under - you’d have to kind of but so I came back and then I end up going to Roper’s Practical Nursing School. RT: Okay. LG: And see now that’s an odd situation again. I could go to the practical nursing school but Roper’s was segregated. Everything was segregated. But I wanted to be in nursing and so I got. And so afterwards they told those of us who wanted to walk at Roper if we filled out an application and a lot of our graduated went to Medical. RT: Okay. LG: A few of us stayed at Roper. �Lillian Green 10 RT: And when did you graduate? LG: Oh gosh. RT: You knew I was going to ask that question. LG: I can’t - I have to go back. I’m trying to think. RT: Or how big was the class that graduated - because you mentioned that some did go to the Medical College in addition to Roper’s. LG: Yeah, we had maybe about twenty-five. Yeah about twenty-five in the class. RT: And we can come back. That’s no problem. When did you more or less we’re talking more since we’re kind of going in a direction toward the Medical College and the strike itself. How was life - and you kind of touched on it - was it - good evening Sir, how are you? Male Voice: I’m fine, how are you? RT: I am fantastic. When did you realize that they were organizing at the Medical College? Did you hear anything prior to the strike or did you hear about them forming a union or anything like that? LG: No someone told me that. Mary Moultrie. That’s who. Was kind of fed up with how things were going at Medical. RT: Okay. And what did you hear? What were some of the things you were hearing? LG: Disrespect. The pay was different for the same position. The whole setup, it was just different for Black and White. And we were surprised there was going to be a big strike like - I don’t think we were sure that it was going to be - they were going to. And I think in the beginning it was just the local people. Bill Saunders was helping them �Lillian Green 11 and I think Reverend [Frederick Douglas ] Dawson. He’s since passed. Because he was anything that’s not right, Reverend Dawson was there. He was at Calvary Baptist, was at Sumter and Ashley but they just built a new church. And some local people and I think most of them were people who did not have to depend on White people for their livelihood. RT: Interesting. LG: Because if you were out there, your face was out there and you worked for some White company or something, you may lose your job. So city Reverend Dawson was pastor, Black church. That’s why I think a lot of pastors were not involved. RT: We very involved. Okay. LG: Because they depended on the people in their church. You know, and RT: Mmm. Well Bill Saunders, he worked for the paper company but they were Jewish so they were very supportive in his activism. LG: Mmm. Yeah, because Jews, a lot of Jews that helped. I told somebody with all the things we’ve gone through, they were people who helped. RT: Oh wow. LG: And they - a lot of Jews, people were members of the NAACP. RT: Oh that’s right. Okay. LG: Mmm. So and plus Bill, I think had some other things that he did personally. So I guess if he got fired he knew he could do something else. And so they started to strike and then I think Mrs. King eventually came and some old folks that I probably can’t remember all the names now, but when the strike was going on, I guess they thought it was just going to be for a couple of days or so. But it went on. And so the �Lillian Green 12 governor and I can’t even remember who the governor was. RT: McNair? LG: And they sent - oh. RT: The National Guard? LG: The National Guard. And they were all around and it was so interesting. I would walk from my house where I was living on - I know it was somewhere in the Hampton Park area but I always walk. I never learned how to drive so I walked everywhere. Except now I can’t. I should have learned how to drive. (0:21:35) I don't need to learn how to drive. I walked everywhere. And when they saw the - you know, the malls and stuff, I could take the bus and come. On my day off I’d come. And so - I lost my train of thought. RT: Oh no you’re fine. You were talking about the organizing kind of surprised you and shocked you. You didn’t know it was going to kind of blow up like it did. So you thought it was only going to last a couple of days. LG: Yeah I think a lot of Blacks - I think the general population, and so I’d walk to work and when I got to the corner of - oh that’s Bee Street. No, passed Bee and then where the medical psych unit is right now because then that unit was not there. I’m trying to think. People lived in the area, a little alleyway that was there then. And then (0:22:4) Porter Gaud School was still across the street. That’s now West Ashley. But the National Guard was helping Black people as you’re entering the hospital area. “Where are you going?” I’m in uniform. I said “I’m going to work.” “ Do you have some ID?” “I said it’s at work.” Because I would leave my hospital ID, I’d throw it in my locker. Because they �Lillian Green 13 wanted you to have it on at work and sometimes if I changed uniforms I’d just throw it on the dresser or something and forget it. So I’d leave it in my locker. And so one of them said “ Well we need some ID for you to go in this area.” I said “Medical is that way. I’m going this way.” RT: Interesting. LG: And so they said “Well I’m sorry, that’s what we were told.” I said “Okay, fine, I’ll go back home and tell them you won’t let me come.” So I guess it was somebody who was over him or something was like, “well where is she going?” I said “right around the corner” because Roper back door was right there. And I said “you could follow me and walk in”. And yeah, and I’d look and I saw White folks who would park somewhere going. I said so “you’re only stopping Black people?” Because they didn’t answer me. I was just so glad when they realized they couldn’t do without those people. So they had to cancel some surgeries. They had to - they couldn’t - it was a lot. It hurt them. They didn’t think it would, but what happened also with the strike, it helped those of us at Roper because then Roper’s was saying hey, this is going on for a longer time than we thought and it might RT: Impact us? LG: Yeah. And so they made changes. Because they weren’t giving us the respect that we needed. And some - I found this out from a young lady who notified somebody in Washington. She found out that the position she had and the position this White lady had were identical, but she found out - because one time the paychecks came out and they were not - they just came out to the floor and actually, in alphabetical order and you �Lillian Green 14 could actually look and see somebody’s pay. And she found that out that way. RT: Wow. So was there the same discrepancy in pay at the Medical College at Roper at the time? LG: With some people. See, we didn’t know - we actually didn’t know because I never did look at anybody’s paycheck. I just wanted to make sure mine was in there. And so this person notified somebody in Washington and they had an (0:25:54) and so it was settled. And then the checks start coming out in the envelopes. RT: Interesting. Very interesting. Very interesting. So when did this happen because you remember with the strike when it actually happened, then county [Charleston County Hospital] also went on strike. So did anybody approach you guys and say hey? LG: Some people did. Because a lot of times you’d have relatives or you’d have friends who were you know RT: And what were your thoughts when they approached you? LG: Well I really couldn’t. I was a single mom. RT: Oh, interesting. LG: And I had my kids. But they knew we were with them, but I couldn’t. But what happened, one day all the Black nurses in the OR called in sick. RT: Mmm. LG: The LPN’s anyhow. And so they had to cancel a lot of surgeries. RT: Mmm. And how many times did they do that? What that just a one-time instance of protest? LG: They did it for a couple of days. �Lillian Green 15 RT: Wow. LG: And then some things started changing because actually Roper had - we could not use the same restrooms the Whites used. So it’s - they had - it was - well they all, because even St. Francis, they were a Catholic Hospital. When you went there you were not put in a room with a White patient. They - I know Cheryl was over there because things were supposedly integrated then. But Cheryl was admitted and she was in a semi-private room and so this White lady did not like that. A Black roommate. She didn’t just come out and say it but we figured that out. Because they said well they weren’t sure what was going on with Cheryl. And they put her in a private room and St. Francis at the time was downtown and some of the rooms did not have a window and it was private. And I went I told them Cheryl’s insurance didn’t pay for a private room. And I said plus, I said, that room, no window? And so when I came back the next day because Cheryl called me, told me they put her in another room. But it was private. I said okay. When it was time for her to check out and she said they were telling her about her bill and I went down there. I was nice, I thought. I said Cheryl did not have anything contagious. I said I asked her doctor, he did not request a private room. Her insurance does not pay for a private room. We are not paying and don't bother sending the bill because we are not. Because I said I will tell them she was moved because that White female did not want her in that room. Because some people, was about two Black persons in the office and of course the White they just look up. Well we’ll check on that. I said check all you want. We’re not paying. She did not request it and her doctor didn’t. I said the person who should have �Lillian Green 16 been moved was her roommate. RT: Interesting. LG: So it’s a little thing but they finally made changes at Roper also. First the restroom issue and even the nurse’s lounge. Because we had a separate lounge and in fact one time the doctor asked us, “why are y'all eating back here?” And we said - and he said, “in this day and time, really?” RT: Wow. LG: And we said, yeah. He said “well I’m going to mention that to someone when we have a board meeting.” That there were - they gradually made changes. RT: Okay. But it didn’t happen overnight. LG: No, but they tried to get us straightened up because when the strike went on and on, they were like oh wow. And especially when it went over to county. So you had people - all circling all around. RT: Did you see any of the strikers? Did you see LG: Oh yes, we did. RT: Can you describe what you were seeing? LG: We were just walking peacefully. RT: Okay. LG: Some had signs. RT: Do you remember any of the signs you saw? LG: No. RT: Okay. LG: Equal pay for equal work or something like that. But it was interesting, we’d �Lillian Green 17 look out the window and some of our White co-workers were out RT: Did they make any comments. LG: A little nervous. I hope y'all don't go out there. I know one of my co-works said “I’ma be out there next week.” It was Helen Campbell that was there to fix it, while I’ll just them go and get nervous. Yeah, it was interesting because we could - if you picture where local hospital is and where County is and Medical, you could go to the window and look and see. And so - and I know one of the pediatricians I work with told me that they ended up doing a lot of stuff that the nurses would do, because he said you didn’t have - you mess those folks and he said - he was telling them I don't know why they don't just go and settle everything. RT: Mmm. This is one of the doctors at Roper? LG: Yeah. RT: Wow. LG: Well then he was doing his internship or residency at Medical. RT: Oh so he was at the Medical College? LG: Yes, he was there. Because on the pediatrics floor, since he was going to be a pediatrician they had - it was a Black RN who was in charge, which was unusual. And he said when they go to check on a baby or something they said oh, she needs changing. Oh, her husband’s a AME preacher over at Mt. Pleasant. I can’t remember the name right now. But she said change it. So he said they’d look at each other and he said some of the guys in there had never changed a baby before. RT: They’d never changed a diaper. They usually had the workers take care of it for them. �Lillian Green 18 LG: Yeah because the nurses would make sure. They’d check and see if they had been changed and they’d go to do something and “say oh, (0:33:50) has a poopy diaper.” She said “change - go ahead and change him.” RT: Wow. LG: So he was saying gosh they just need to settle this. This is nonsense. You’re doing the same work and then they call you by your name but everybody else is addressed - because Roper did that too. RT: Oh, interesting. LG: Oh yeah. And a notice came around about how to address people. Yeah so that’s what I’m saying, Medical and County strike made changes at Roper. RT: Interesting. LG: Yeah. RT: So did that notice come out immediately or did it come out - because you know the strike itself ran for 119 days. So did it come out kind of in the middle of that? Do you remember? LG: I think probably in the middle because like I said, I don't think anyone thought it was going to last as long RT: As long as it did. LG: They thought they’re going to get tired. They didn’t. And so we were happy for them and when they’d have meetings sometimes, some of us would try to go. Happened at different churches. RT: Right. So did you attend any of the ones at Morris? LG: A couple. Not a lot. �Lillian Green 19 RT: Okay. LG: Yeah, so they gradually started changing things at Roper. So that’s why I said the strike made things change at Roper. RT: Okay. Well going back to some of the meetings you went to, can you remember any of some of the things that were said? Were they more encouraging meetings or were they kind of status? Oh we’re going to be doing this or hey we’re going to boycott that? LG: No, it was encouraging because they knew that some people who were still there - because some of people still had to work there. You had people who worked in environmental services. Then it wasn’t environment services. They called them housekeepers. RT: Okay. LG: But they were working and some of them would say how things were changing and that they were trying to not say well we give up, this is the medical establishment. And when you went to the meetings, they said we’re going to keep at it. Because you know, until we realized that you need it. You need it. And it took them they were just bull-headed. It took them a while because then you - those people were doing their job. RT: Wow. What are some of the highest points of the strike and what are some of the lowest points of the strike that you can remember? LG: Now I think lowest points, like some folks and it was predominantly White people, when they went there to work they knew what the salary was, so why are they making a big deal out of it? But every job you go on you know what the pay is. And you �Lillian Green 20 might say oh wow, that’s good. And you might say well I thought I would be getting more. But as you work, you - most people have a system where you get good review and so you get more money. And nobody’s salary stays the same. I mean maybe McDonald’s and those, not even those people, they need to make more money. You can’t live off of that money. So yes, you knew what the salary was. But you expect to get paid raise according to what you do because some companies, that’s how they have it. If you’ve done well, at a certain point, if the company is doing well then everybody get like maybe two percent of their percentage raised. Nobody’s salary stays the same. I mean even these politicians. They vote raises for themselves. So we heard a lot of that. And of course you have a few Black folks who are like they’re still doing that? Those people are not going to give in. But those are the folks who - I guess some have faith. You have to have faith to take up a cause and continue it. RT: Okay, so what are some of the highest points? You talked about the lowest points being - we’re still fighting for fair salaries. So what are some of the high points? LG: The high points I think was the young ladies, because I knew quite a few of them because it’s like I said, some were in the class with you when you graduated from the school. They were very optimistic. They knew there were going to be changes. And one person said maybe not for me but the person who comes behind me. RT: Wow. LG: And so they were optimistic. They - like the song says don't let anybody turn me around. RT: Alright now. Alright now. �Lillian Green 21 LG: Yeah, so - and Mary Moultrie, she was out there. She was out there from the beginning to the end. RT: Right. Did you get to hear her speak or anything? Or meet her in person? LG: Well I knew her from years ago and had not had too much contact with her working over in Medical, I’m there. But even her family members. Because my daughter Donna went to school with one of her sisters. It was her niece. Because they’re such a close family together. And then my other daughter that died also, Dawn, she went to school with somebody in that family. So when we were living as they say back to (0:40:38), they lived - their family lived on Allway Street. And so Allway Street is right there in the projects. Yeah, and so we knew the family. Not personal, not to visit, but yeah. RT: Okay. What about - you talked about Robert Abernathy, did you get to hear him speak or did you get to see him? LG: I got to see him. I didn’t get to hear him speak, but yeah. RT: Okay, do you have any memories of him? LG: I just thought that he - all those folks who did it. I just thought that they were brave because of the causes they took up - they were like going to Afghanistan. It was dangerous. RT: Right. It’s a very LG: It was dangerous. RT: Wow. Abernathy. He was being tested special with MLK just passing. LG: Yeah. RT: And he’s taking over the reins. �Lillian Green 22 LG: Yeah and so I just admired them. And I’m just trying to think when - at one point I know when we were talking about protesting, I don't know - it was in the nurse’s march when Reverend King and those were down, and so a group of us said we were going. And one thing they ask you not to do - not to be violent. Don't care what people did. But we were on King Street one day because I did it twice. Somebody - they were spitting on it. I can’t - told my girlfriend, I said no. I said that part, no. And we would go to the meetings at the different churches. One night we were at a church on Meeting Street right in front of where Piggly Wiggly was. Methodist Church. We were in there and Reverend - young Reverend Blake and some other young people, they were talking and then they were singing and firemen and policemen came in, said we had to leave the building. Somebody said they put a bomb in the church. And so later on we were laughing because two of my girlfriends and I, we were sitting and we were like - we were getting our purse and stuff and the young kids said start singing we shall not be moved. Going around the church and then they were like oh god, if they’re not going (0:43:34). We stayed there and they kept the voices and the heart and heart asking you to please, please you need to get out. They need to be able to search for it. Nobody moved. Nothing. RT: Wow. LG: They wanted to break up a meeting. RT: Right. LG: So I don't know if they actually got a call or what but anyhow they didn’t move. And we laughed later on, they said all the young people, they said they got moved �Lillian Green 23 facing us because they said there’s not no bomb in there. They were getting all (0:44:16). RT: So you mentioned that you weren’t able to hear any memorable speeches. Well let’s go back to your family. How was the family - your family coping during this time? Now, I know we’re talking kind of indirectly and you knew about others and they knew you had their support, but like you said you’re still walking the same streets and when the National Guard approached you, they’re still treating you just like them. LG: Yeah. RT: They don't see any difference. LG: Nope. RT: So how did your family kind of cope with the situation? LG: They were in school and they did pretty good. They were just concerned that because so many kids they were going to school with had relatives who work at Medical. And they said you think those White folks might start shooting people or something? But no, that didn’t happen. But they were concerned that family members would come to some harm. But it was peaceful. RT: Right. Was there any tension in the family? Did you have any family members that just didn’t want any part of it or everybody was just a united front behind LG: They were united because they know changes needed to be made. Even in the churches. Now some of the older people which was my age. When I say old, I was saying the older people, look at me - that’s great. I say well, at that time they were old. I said I’m old. Now I think they were fearful. RT: Okay. LG: Yeah. The times that we grew up in, you have to be fearful because even as a �Lillian Green 24 young child, I was so - when I saw a White person, if I was by myself, in fact I told a friend and she laughed. I thought every White person was a member of the Klan. RT: Oh wow. LG: I really did. I did. That was my childhood. Every White person had their Klan outfit and so that’s just how it felt. And so I think some of the older people - because they’d known the Klan were alive and well and sometimes they would do stuff. They didn’t have to pay. RT: Wow. LG: They weren’t arrested and even when they were, you get an all-White jury, nothing happened. So I think that was their fear because I know at our church when Reverend Glover was the pastor of our church and he was another one out there. He was there asking for the bus drivers because you didn’t - majority Blacks rode the bus. This was the belt line and all of the drivers were White. And he was out there protesting plus for the schools. Because our parson was on Rockledge and right across from him was a school. James Simmons. No, not James Simmons but St. Mitchell. I think Mitchell across. His kids could walk right across the street and walk right into the school but they couldn’t go. And so he was out there protesting, got arrested a couple times. All the people in the church saying it don't look good for the pastor to be in jail, but the pastor had to do it because they didn’t have to worry about being fired when they went back. Because a lot of people lost their jobs who were seen marching. They - so and some people wanted to but they had to work so you didn’t have too much other choice. �Lillian Green 25 RT: Right, when they called for certain places to be boycotted, and I know you heard about that at the time, did you also support the boycott at that time? LG: Oh yeah. RT: And what are some of the places that you - can you remember some of the places that you boycotted? LG: Well I know one place was at Edward’s. RT: Edward’s, okay. LG: Yeah Edwards was like what came out as the people now because you can go in there and get almost anything. And Reverend Glover was running his march around that because they said all the Black people - that’s who went in Edward’s. And there were no Black cashiers. And so they were there marching around Edward’s. And I’m trying to think. A couple other stores, but then there was like - they disrespect you, don't spend your money in those places. And you know at one time, King Street, all the stores were owned by people who live here. So now you go downtown, of course you have Condon’s, you had Kerrison. All of those places, the families lived here. And so don't go in. And eventually - and I can’t remember how long it took, but and then the bus, they finally got Black bus drivers. So but you had to go - in fact when Reverend Glover went and a couple other ministers went down to Fort Sumter Hotel, they know they didn’t need a room but they wouldn’t leave. They got arrested. Now some of those older people in the church said you really got to stop. You got to stop that. That just don't look good. Some people said well, they don't have to worry about being fired. You know? �Lillian Green 26 RT: Mmm. Absolutely. LG: So they’re the ones who had to do it. And meetings were held in the Black churches because where else could you go? We didn’t have any place else to go. So that’s why a lot of times they said I wonder why the Black ministers get involved? They were involved because they realized our people are paying our salary and we let them come in the church. You had meetings, most of the meetings were held at churches. RT: Right. So you touched on this a little bit earlier, but how did Roper change after the strike? You mentioned that during the strike they started putting policies in place, but did it change anymore once the strike was over? LG: You could see small changes even in people’s attitude. And it was on-going and it was slow. But it got change. If it wasn’t for that strike, I know by now it would have changed, but I don't know how long it would have taken. RT: Okay. LG: So the strike sort of open their eyes. Like oh. It’s coming close, so yeah. RT: Okay. Now did you hear about anything over at County or possibly back at the Medical College once it was over, how things were going? LG: No. Well some of the White co-workers sort of gave them the cold shoulder for a while. RT: Interesting. LG: But they realized you can’t take care of a sick person and depend on this person to be helping you if you’re going to act a fool. RT: Oh I agree. LG: So it gradually - because you know, a lot of White people didn’t want to �Lillian Green 27 accept the changes. And it was on account they could tell on that strike and how long it lasted. Just like the Montgomery boycott, the bus. They took a while, but they realized if it didn’t change - and when you hurt somebody I guess in their pocketbook, you know? RT: Oh yes. You get their attention. LG: Yeah and some places, some people would go - of course it was the same thing anywhere you’d go in South Carolina. But they would have bus rides to go shopping somewhere, so that was another thing. So they’re taking the money out of the city and going and giving it to another city. But still the city of Charleston realized that they missed - because Black people are going to spend their money. Sometimes RT: What are some of the other cities that they went to shop when they had those bus rides? LG: Right now I can’t remember where. I knew it went to Myrtle Beach. RT: Oh really? Wow. LG: And sometimes even down to Savannah but some of those places had the same problems with - well I guess you had the domino effect. Once you see it’s happening over there, if we don't do something here, it’s going to come here. So I think that’s what happened. You just RT: Okay. What are some of the achievements of the strike? You talked you got the respect they of course deserve. Is there anything else outside of respect that they gained? LG: Well they hired more Black RN’s, even Roper, and then every time then you even had - an RN, I mean a Black RN who was a head nurse. RT: Oh wow. �Lillian Green 28 LG: So the change, it came slowly but it came and like I said my time where I could see it. RT: Excellent. LG: And people in positions that - I know this was way after the strike but at one point, I’m trying to think - Roper had - I’m trying to think if he was - what his position was. This young Black guy. And we were so happy to see him. I’m trying to think what he was doing. But he was doing like an internship and it was - but anyhow it was up in the corporate area. And so we were just so glad that - although he was just going to be there for like a year but we had never seen a Black person down there in that office. And just - you know, so things came about gradually. RT: Well you talked about the positive, the change that gradually happened. Were there any negatives due to the strike? You talked about the animosity with some Caucasians where they didn’t like the fact, they wanted to keep the status-quo. So is there any things outside of that? Is that kind of a failure of the strike or did you notice any failures from the strike? LG: No, I think of course - not I’m told but I know just from reading the paper, Medical still has a little problem. It’s not that problem but they’ve had some Black employees who were fired and of course the reasons that were given, they were fighting it. And so you still have to watch it. And even I know some Black co-workers, my Black co-workers, we would sit in the nurse’s lounge sometimes and we were talking about how things don't look like it should be. And after they all left and I was still in there, the secretary who was this White secretary says - she said Ms. Green, can I ask you something? I said yes. She said why do �Lillian Green 29 you all - of course when you hear you all, you know what’s coming - complain so much? I said you would have to be Black to know and it’s not going to happen. And she said because I don't see - I heard y'all talking and I don't see some of those things. I said you won’t see it. You won’t. So about two weeks later, she said I owe you an apology. I said really? So she said I went down to do human resources one day. She said when I went down there, there were two White females waiting. They were there. And she said there were two Black females sitting over at a desk filling out employment paper. I say oh - that’s when you did it paper, now you can go on the computer. RT: Mmm. Yes Ma’am. LG: And so she said - and when they left and gave this lady in human resource the paper and she said she was real nice sounding. Well you should hear from somebody in a couple of days or so. And she said as soon as those ladies were out the door and the door was closed she put it in the - oh, my RT: The shredder? LG: The shredder. RT: Wow. LG: And she said the three of them looked at each other, you know, three ways. And so I said what did you all do? She said we just looked and when we went out the door we were like wow. I can’t believe she did that. And so her husband was a minister and so she said she told him. And he said well what did you do? She said well I was so shocked I didn’t know what to do. He said what you should have done was to call or write a note to someone up in the corporate office. And he said because that’s �Lillian Green 30 unacceptable. And she said and so - he said but let’s do this and they went and the little chapel, church - she said and we prayed for her and the two young ladies. RT: Wow. LG: I said oh, that was nice. She said I still feel guilty because she said, now - she said I can see when you all were saying things, some of the things - because she said if I wasn’t down there and you said that, I may not have believed you. RT: Wow. LG: I said it goes on. It goes on. Yeah. RT: Yes Ma’am. So you would say the strike changed you personally? I mean did it change you for the better because you knew certain things were going on and you resisted in one or did it change anything in Charleston at the time? LG: I think it changed things in Charleston because it was part of an on-going Spring, it started and then different places started making changes. And it didn’t actually change me because I learned something from my mother years ago. I studied people. My mother told me if I kept my lips zipped, my eyes open and this open, she said you will learn about life things I can’t teach you and you will learn about people. You will learn people. And I knew even when some people smiling, hugging and all that, I sort of kept that little funny smile back because you can almost tell a phony if you really study people. RT: Yes Ma’am. LG: But as I got older I just accept people for who they are. They all have their thoughts and I can’t change it. And so because I know not too long, recently, we were talking about the football player. I think his name is Kaepernick or whatever. �Lillian Green 31 RT: Mmm. Colin Kaepernick. LG: And so somebody was saying for the Star Spangled Banner, and of course it was a White lady, I just can’t believe he didn’t stand for it. Does he know how many people went to war and all to - well I didn’t say anything to her because I did not want to get into it. But I said the Star Spangled Banner, we are saying because that’s what we’ve been doing. It was not written for Black people. Francis Scott Key wrote is as a poem. That’s something a teacher taught me in elementary school but it was taught it was written as a poem and the US made it into - . RT: The National Anthem. LG: But I said if you read all the words, he wrote that - he was a slave trader. He had our people, owning them like you own cattle. So when he said the land of the free and the home of the brave. We weren’t free so it wasn’t for us. So he has the right, now he’s thinking about it, to do that. And so I wanted to say something but I said - I was too passionate and I didn’t want to sound argumentative. But I said if she thinks about it and even the Pledge of Allegiance. And when we were in school, a couple of my classmates would stand - because we had to stand and do the pledge, but they didn’t say it. And I was always oh, they don't know it. And then my mom said they’re probably Jehovah’s Witness. Because they’re not going to pledge. So Jehovah Witnesses don't do it. They don't pledge, unless they’ve changed. RT: Right. LG: So and then I thought more about that lady. I said my brother went to World War II. Came back here, he couldn’t vote. I mean because Blacks couldn’t vote. He couldn’t vote but he went and fought for this country. So talking about the Star Spangled �Lillian Green 32 Banner and the people who went to war. What does it mean to her? But I said I would have gotten into a long - yeah, so he has the right not to. RT: Right. LG: And so a White person, unless one morning they wake up and God has made them Black, they won’t ever understand. RT: Wow. LG: Because even now, some people think when I - watch the Slager trial thing on TV. I don't care what Scott said to him, because he said he was cussing him and all that. So what? He was running away. And how could that be okay? To shoot a man that many times in the back? Running away. And it’s not just him. The little twelve-year-old boy that was playing on the playground who had a RT: Toy gun. LG: He got shot. Those two policemen, nothing’s happening. They’re still working. Nobody is being responsible for what they did. They thought it was a real gun but they didn’t even wait because they were saying from the time the car got there and he shot - so it’s so - we’ve still got a way to go. RT: Right. Are there any questions I didn’t ask that you’d like to talk about as we come to a close? LG: No, I just - well talking about the election. RT: Well more toward the strike, is there any other questions that we did talk about or I don’t want to leave your memories not touched on that we left LG: No I think we touched most of it. Yeah. RT: Okay. Well once again, Ms. Green, thank you for your time and we really �33 Lillian Green appreciate the feedback you provided. I think this will be a great help for us moving forward. LG: Okay I hope so. RT: Alright. End of recording. Edited by ML 9/13/17 � https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/39779/archive/files/62f4aa9e508542c79af71b6d102273d3.MP3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=a3Rvi7KGdkbsFqp5KNCkhTh8dbkuT8SuKTrNoXeax8CT912AU7V2wGK%7Ei%7ElCdJM0jYoIMDUTOThLfYTDC397gk4UpSZUflK4G8zW59ChrCA4pu0MT6-FCgfo115O-KzbznNPytkC%7EXqlEKarGlFQqALDhobHlpyrtE0gRiZS--COO36hE2fgM5lku2U%7EEcmZlhziecKqxz1QBkaxebwHRr-FjOSjT9rCRVrJ6owfrmeL534fdMWZlqmt%7EWudyOaLwsr51J33oT7DDoQCA4zsFaS0mMS1LxD17jLpoXz3MBJZJPp0BG6nIwh2DSd99-w8l9UttGaudKjT8T3IESmhvA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 75889ebf34039fbbb165607460ca34a6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Description An account of the resource The oral histories in this collection were produced by The Charleston Oral History Program at the Citadel. Founded in 2008, The Charleston Oral History Program at the Citadel seeks to deepen understanding of the Lowcountry’s rich history and culture through the gathering and presentation of recorded memories from area residents.<br /><h3>Search Tips</h3> Interviews may be browsed by scrolling to the bottom of this page and selecting "View all items".<br /><br />When using the search bar, we recommend putting quotations around your search term, and selecting the Boolean search option, as illustrated here:<br /><p><img src="https://gdurl.com/aYPj" alt="aYPj" /><br /><br />To view interviews of a specific theme, please see the search tips in each series below.</p> <h3><strong>The Citadel in War and in Peace<br /></strong></h3> With generous support from the <a href="http://www.schumanities.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Humanities Council of South Carolina</a>, The Charleston Oral History Program at the Citadel collected thirty interviews with Citadel alumni regarding their experiences during WWII. Journalist and historian Jack Bass conducted the interviews during the Fall of 2008.They serve as a powerful testament to the veterans' experiences and their critical contributions to the war effort.<br /><br /><em>*To search interviews in this series, use the following terms utilizing the Boolean search option:</em><br /><ul><li>"The Citadel in War and in Peace"</li> <li>"The Citadel in War and in Peace -- World War II"</li> <li>"The Citadel in War and in Peace -- Korean War"</li> <li>"The Citadel in War and in Peace -- Vietnam War"</li> <li>"The Citadel in War and in Peace -- The Second Gulf War"</li> <li>"The Citadel in War and in Peace -- The War in Afghanistan"</li> </ul> <h3><strong>Working Charleston</strong></h3> Working Charleston documents the on and off job experiences of the longshoremen and lawyers, the bartenders and carriage drivers, hospital aides and high tech workers who make Charleston among the nation's prime tourist destinations and vital centers of global trade.<br /><br /><em>*To search interviews in this series, use the following terms utilizing the Boolean search option:</em><br /><ul><li>"Working Charleston"</li> <li>"Charleston City Workers"</li> <li>"Lowcountry Foodways"</li> </ul> <h3><strong>Charleston and the Long Civil Rights Movement</strong></h3> <span><span>These interviews explore how community activism continues to shape modern life in the South.<br /><br /><em>*To search interviews in this series, use the following terms utilizing the Boolean search option:</em><br /></span></span> <ul><li>"Charleston and the Long Civil Rights Movement</li> <li>"Civil rights movement--South Carolina"</li> <li>"African Americans--Civil Rights--South Carolina--Charleston"</li> </ul><a target="_blank" href="https://citadeldigitalarchives.omeka.net/items/show/193" rel="noreferrer noopener"></a> <h3><strong>Las Voces del Lowcountry</strong></h3> <span><span>This project is designed to raise the profile of the Hispanic/Latinos who call the Lowcountry home and to promote a rational and humane conversation regarding immigration, education, and employment policies.<br /><br /><em>*To search interviews in this series, use the following terms utilizing the Boolean search option:<br /></em></span></span> <ul><li>"Las Voces del Lowcountry"</li> <li>"Latin Americans--Southern States"</li> <li>"Hispanic Americans--Southern States"</li> </ul> <h3><strong>Women in World War II</strong></h3> <em>*To search this series, type "Women in World War II" into the search bar, using the Boolean search option.<br /></em> <ul><li>"Women in World War II"</li> <li>"Women--Employment History"</li> <li>"World War, 1939-1945--Participation, female"</li> </ul> Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Citadel, the Military College of South Carolina Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Raynald Turner Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lillian Green Location The location of the interview Charleston, South Carolina Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1 hour, 9 minutes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History of Lillian Green, interviewed by Raynald Turner, 21 November, 2016 Subject The topic of the resource African American women African Americans--Segregation South Carolina--History Description An account of the resource Nurse Lillian Green was born in 1934 in Charleston, South Carolina. She remembers growing up on Short Street where she felt loved and protected by her community. However, her reality was different on her daily walk to Buist School. There, she encountered the hostility and hate of white children and police officers. She remembers with affection her teachers and the programs at the Henry P. Archer Auditorium. Years later, she attended Roper’s Practical Nursing School during segregation and kept working at Roper Hospital. In the interview, Green talks in length about her memories of the 1969 Charleston Hospital Workers Strike. She states the she supported the nurses’ demands but was not in a condition to stop working. She learned about the demands and actions directly from Mary Moultrie. She also remembers other activists such as William Saunders and Rev. Frederick Douglas Dawson and recalls the support provided by the Jewish community. Green share her memories about other related events including a church meeting where there was a bomb threat. Green argues Roper Hospital workers and many others around the country benefited by the strike’s achievements. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource The Charleston Oral History Program at the Citadel Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Working Charleston Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available The Citadel Archives & Museum Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-11-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Materials in The Citadel Archives & Museum Digital Collections are intended for educational and research use. The user assumes all responsibility for identifying and satisfying any claimants of copyright. For more information contact The Citadel Archives & Museum, The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina, 29409. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://citadeldigitalarchives.omeka.net/items/show/762 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Charleston (S.C.)